MLMs and Mormons

Someone asked the following question on the RFM Board (www.exmormon.org) recently:

“Is it me, or are Mormons attracted to MLMs (multi-level marketing) like moth to flame?”

My reply was: Yes, Why? Because they need to generate extra income. Tithe, told to have large families. They need extra income. But with all their callings, temple visits, etc., they have no time.

So when they are offered an MLM opportunity ("create your own tri-spatial uplining downline in only ten minutes!!") they fall upon it like a thirsty man in the desert when he sees water. Only it's almost always a mirage.

I have written on this subject at greater length. Here is that post:-

Why DO so many Mormons enter MLM schemes?

Why do so many Mormons get into MLM schemes or other direct selling schemes and try to sell Amway, Noni Juice, Nu Skin, Mary Kay, Nature’s Sunshine Products, Herbalife, Nutra-Smart, XanGo, Living Scriptures, 4Life Research, NSA, Pharmanex, Quixtar, Shaklee, Kirby, Unicity International, USANA Health Sciences, Inc., and Old Mother Jones’ Baked Goods by Mail? (OK, although it sounds like a good idea, I just made that last one up!)

Now, some ex-Mormons say that this is because Mormons are stupid. This must mean that either they, the ex-Mormon, is also stupid, or somehow when they became an ex-Mormon miraculously became non-stupid and magically intelligent.

However, as most ex-Mormons do not believe in miracles or magic (they drag out that lovely little hobby horse, the Invisible Pink Unicorn) then we must look for another explanation as to why so many Mormons get involved with MLM schemes and scams. The answer is so simple that I am surprised the “Mormons are stupid/gullible” theory has held sway for so long.

The real answer is, I believe, because the Mormon church, in relative terms, keeps its membership ‘dirt poor.’

Every faithful (and some less-than-faithful) Mormon pays 10% of their income to the Mormon Church in a tithe. Now, in strictly Biblical terms, the Mormon tithe is not “legal”. This is because it tithes income before tax; Federal, State, Income Tax, Sales Tax, VAT and Council Tax in the UK, so it tithes gross income and not net/increase as a genuine tithe would.

Therefore the situations for Mormons is worse than it would at first appear to be. Depending on local taxation regimens, the real cost of a Mormon tithe could be anything up to 25 to 50%. And this does not take into account mission fund, fast offering, etc., which takes an even larger chunk of money out of the typical Mormon family budget.

So in comparison to their non-Mormon neighbours (even those of other Christian denominations who might pay a tithe based on increase, rather than gross income) many Mormons are “dirt poor.”

So in order to live any kind of meaningful life and to not have to rely on food stamps, social security handouts or Mormon church welfare, an extra source of income is required.

What about a second job? An attractive idea, true. But as for the practicalities of a Mormon getting a second job? As Austin Powers would say: “Oh, behave!” Most faithful Mormons spend almost all of their free time in meetings, or even in meetings about meetings. Not to mention, home/visiting teaching, missionary splits, etc., etc. They would not have time for an extra job.

So what to do to ensure their children have some luxuries in their life, such as food to eat, a roof over their heads, and so forth? Try MLM. You can run it in your spare time. (What spare time?!) and even if you do not have spare time, you can try to have a whispered conversation in the hall in between three hour block meetings with Brother Zee or Sister Wye, about how you are SURE that Wonder Cure Mineral Drink will just change their lives forever! (And all for only two cans a week, at $14.00 per can.

Do they make any money? The answer varies from not much to zero. So not only do they not get out from the Mormon Church poverty trap they end up even more miserable and depressed. And then what happens? More Prozac, anyone?

So, next time someone says to you that Mormons are stupid for getting into MLMs, ask them where they parked either their Bible or their Invisible Pink Unicorn? Ask them when (or if!) THEY stopped being stupid. Or point out that Mormons are not necessarily stupid, but are kept in the Mormon poverty trap. After all, a poor person is often more pliable than a wealthy one.

I also covered it here

Scams, schemes and dreams

Utah, or so we are told, is the World Capital City of scams, schemes and dreams.

As I have asked before, WHY do so many Mormons get into MLM schemes or other direct selling schemes and try to sell Amway, Noni Juice, Nu Skin, Mary Kay, Nature’s Sunshine Products, Herbalife, Nutra-Smart, XanGo, Living Scriptures, 4Life Research, NSA, Pharmanex, Quixtar, Shaklee, Kirby, Unicity International, USANA Health Sciences, Inc., and the like?

Well, I blame the grandpappy of all Mormon propaganda films, Meet the Mormons. You have to be of a certain age to have seen this film, originally made for the World's Fair in 1960 something, because some utter arse allowed the Mormons to have a special Mormon Pavilion there.

The film was shown to all new 'prospects' (a term borrowed directly from the insurance sales industry, which shows just exactly HOW the Mormon church feels about people) and I would guess that it was a major factor in tricking my parents into joining.

"Do you want to be in Heaven with your family?" What kind of pondscum would say no to that question? You'd have to be an idiot NOT to agree with that, right? Right. And that's how they scammed people.

I was hoping to find it on Google or Youtube, but it is not there. Yet. Here is a link to a copy of the book that went with the film, on sale http://www.elephantbooks.com/item_list.asp?category=Religion+and+Inspiration%3AMormonism&major_id=72

The film helped prime people to be gullible. It helped to ensure that the Mormons grew up as ideal victims of scams, schemes and dreams. Ideal for plucking by fellow Mormons as desperate as themselves, or by fellow Mormons who were cynical and who were looking for other Mormons who they could fleece and rip-off.

Could YOU take the last $10 or £10 from a needy family with pie in the sky dreams of a multi-level marketing structure that was "just so right for them and their young, hungry family?"

Children who were not thriving because you can't thrive on TVP and other such crud? (Yes, we had to eat TVP. It was vile and tasted awful. Still, it was OK, because my mom and dad paid tithing and fast offering.)

As a side point, we once had a Bishop who questioned the modest amount of our fast offering. My mother showed the SOB exactly how much money we had to spend on food, after we took 10% out of my father's meager wage. He was shocked by what we had to live on. Not shocked enough to offer us help you understand! But then that wasn't the Mormon way in Britain.

Why are some ex-Mormons so... Mormon?

Some ex-Mormons are so Mormon!

What do I mean by that?

Not so long ago on the Ex-Mormon bulletin board, there was Timothy's regular: "What are you drinking tonight?" threads.

Someone complained about it saying: "I think that you will find that 'in the real world' people never talk about what they will be drinking on a Friday evening!"

I had to wade in to this debate. It was clear that the person who made that comment hadn't got one clue about the real world! In my workplace in the UK what alcoholic beverages are going to be consumed that evening and the rest of the weekend are a major topic of conversation on Fridays. And on Monday there is often a conversation about the actuality of what as drunk!

And someone disliked my blog and the book that I based on it because: "I used bad language."

In truth my language was mild compared to me in the flesh, so I still haven't a clue what he meant.

The problem that the ex-Mormons who made the above statement have, but doesn't realise is that they still view the world through Mormon-tinted glasses.

They do not believe in the teachings of Joseph Smith but for some reason they still act like Mormons, pompous arrogant and very condescending.

Why? Because they will have to learn how to behave like normal people in the real world.

Why do they do it?

Why do Mormons think that ex-Mormons want to debate spurious points with them? I had my fill of debating spurious points with rabid Mormons when I was a Mormon!

For example, Mormons who are eager for the re-introduction of polygamy. Almost salivating at the prospect of having multiple wives. And this was in Britain, remember. Not in Utah with the various Mormon fundamentalist camps and compounds where polygamy is a sort of open secret. Or open sore, as some might see it. I saw the look on the faces of their poor wives. Not nice.

The problem that many Mormons have with ex-Mormons is that they do not believe anything that we say. They either pretend that we were never really Mormons, or, if we can provide them with proof that we were once Mormons like them (why should we have to?) they deny that we ever really had a testimony that Mormonism was the one true faith. Or that we were too weak to remain as Mormons, or wanted to sin or were offended by someone and left in a huff. Or were tricked by Satan.

If we provide them with hard evidence of why we conclude that Mormonism is not true, they call us liars and say that only faith promoting Mormon sources are 'true' and 'reliable'.

Thus they deny that -for example- the fact that the so-called Reformed Egyptian was, in reality, Ogham, a type of Latin shorthand is important, because feelings trump facts. Always.

If you say that blue is blue, they will deny it and say that you have no proof to back up your outrageous claim. Why would it be an outrageous claim? Because YOU made it! And as you are an ex-Mormon, then you MUST be wrong! QED!

It is a simple way of thinking that requires no thought.

As I have covered all variations of how Mormons think that ex-Mormons are always in the wrong, I do not feel inclined to accept any "You are wrong!" comments on this post from any Mormons. Hey. It's my blog. I can set the rules and if I do not want to enter into a pointless debate with people who automatically presume that I am wrong, then that's the way it is.

Mormon temple marriage policy under scrutiny

Hundreds of people are coming together from various countries and religious persuasions, to voice their objections to the leadership of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints at its headquarters in Salt Lake City, Utah regarding its divisive temple wedding policy in North America -and increasingly in other countries. Online discussion and debate on Mormon blogs have been ignited by a petition at the website www.templeweddingpetition.org where people may print off and sign an actual hard copy petition requesting Church leaders to seriously consider the damage to the church and individuals; hoping for a sign of compassion towards all those who are, have been and may still be affected.

The temple wedding policy creating such a storm, penalises LDS couples who choose a civil marriage outside of LDS temples with a mandatory one-year waiting period before they can attend the temple for the uniquely LDS temple sealing. Combining a marriage ceremony ‘until death do us part’ with the temple ‘sealing for eternity’ means that it must take place within the confines of an LDS temple to which anyone other than an adult, worthy, temple endowed Mormon is excluded.

Petition spokesperson Jean Bodie says petition participants are stating that the policy is not doctrinal because LDS couples are not penalized in other parts of the world where civil marriage is required by law. According to Bodie, personal accounts posted to the website tell how the policy results in pain and disharmony in family relationships, often resulting in anger toward the LDS Church. “For a worldwide Church that believes families are eternal, its exclusionary policy can and often does create a painful chasm, between family loyalty and obedience to an arbitrary policy, says Bodie.

Organisers anticipate that the leadership of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints wishes to promote love and harmony in the family. Bodie says they simply want the Church to waive the punitive, one-year waiting period; giving back to LDS couples the right to choose a civil marriage ceremony first, if they so desire, without any repercussions or judgment on their character.

For further details please visit www.templeweddingpetition.org

An interesting question: Were the first Mormons idiots?

Rubicon posed this very interesting question over at RFM.

Here are my thoughts on why so many people came from England, Wales, Scotland and Scandinavia:-

Look at it from their point of view. Many of them were craftsmen. But they were not always paid what they were due. In Britain they lived in small, damp and cold terraced houses, often very close to the factory where they worked. If the womenfolk put the washing out on a washing line strung up in the back yard or over the alley at the back of the houses, the pollution would make it dirtier than before it was washed.

They were fed stories of the rolling pastures of Utah, how you could have as much land as you wanted, how the weather was nice and the air was pure. And would make your child with the chest condition breathe good, wholesome, clean air for the first time in its miserable life.

It is surprising that more did not accompany them.

And when they found out the awful, terrible truth?

Why, there was Sister Snitch and Bother Tittle-Tattle ready to carry tales back and then there was Brother Danite ready to make sure they toed the line!

Well, you wouldn't want to just vanish like that Scandinavian troublemaker who left a wife and three children to starve under the malevolent eye of Brother Brigham, prophet, seer and revelator, would you?

And as luck would have it, Brother Brigham had a close confidant of his marry the beautiful blond woman for himself. Joining his 12 other bitter, resentful older wives.

What's that? She's... You don't think she is officially a widow? Well, hush! If the Lord's anointed has ordained the wedding, then please say it must be so! Don't question it, for pities sake! Least you want to take the walk into the night with the Danite Brethren!

They were not idiots. The were given the hard sell and then were too terrified to be able to do anything about it.

Happy New Year!

Have fun!

A rude Carol (Sensitive people, don't watch!)

Mormonism: How stupid do they think people are?

The answer is they hope people are very stupid indeed.

Everyone who uses multilevel marketing techniques to sell either a product or a way of life must really hate the Internet.

For out there on the internet you will find sites both for and against (for example): Amway, Noni Juice, Nu Skin, Mary Kay, Nature’s Sunshine Products, Herbalife, Nutra-Smart, XanGo, Living Scriptures, 4Life Research, NSA, Pharmanex, Quixtar, Shaklee, Covey, Kirby, Unicity International, USANA Health Sciences, Inc., Mormonism, etc., etc.

Some of the sites are purely bonkers with criticism that is unfair or based on a misunderstanding with someone. Others. however, have very valid and genuine criticism of the firm or organisation concerned.

The Mormon Church, however, is one of the few that actually warn people not toseek out critical information on it! To many people, this is the red rag to the bull. "If you don't want me to find out some information, then there's a reason why." And people use the Internet and discover websites like this one, or Recovery From Mormonism and the like.

Prospects (yes, Mormonism uses American Insurance sales terms for people thinking about joining their church) can see how many women (married and single) Joseph Smith had as 'wives' what the Danites were, which modern LDS leaders thought it better that a young lady allow herself to be murdered rather than raped and other such gems of LDS wisdom.

Many decline to join such a church. Or, if they do, keep their wits about them and bale out as soon as the nutty ways of Mormonism become all too apparent.

And that is why the Mormon Church doesn't want you on the Internet, researching all about the Mormon Church. No salesman wants to lose a prospect, do they?

How to Lie for the Lord. (VIDEO)

Mormon Calendar gets UK publicity

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/picturegalleries/howaboutthat/6459430/2010-calendars-nude-charity-and-bizarre-calendars-available-for-next-year.html

Publicity for Chad's calendar is now going International.

Exmo Challenge. Make your own exmo TV advert!

MJ over at RFM inspired me.

The challenge is this:-

Make an exmo TV advert. It can be up to 2 minutes in length and should put a humorous take on the exmo experience and how much better life is as an exmo.

Publish it on your Youtube Channel and send me the link (matt underscore exmo at yahoo.co.uk) and I'll publish them here on Notamormon.

Let's say until the end of November.

There are no prizes, but it should be fun.

Atheist Summer Camp for UK kids?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2009/jul/29/atheist-summer-camp-somerset

“The idea behind the camp is to give a "godless" alternative to traditional religious summer camps”

Actually, this is a strange idea. As ANY summer camps in Britain (religious or otherwise) are very, very rare indeed.

Still, it is an interesting idea.

Weird Mormon stories

http://taiwanjournal.nat.gov.tw/ct.asp?xItem=54220&ctNode=413

“Mormon proprietor tastes alcohol without swallowing”

(EDITOR: Just stop serving booze!)

http://www.sltrib.com/themix/ci_12754408

“LDS Leaders strive to help foreign members feel comfortable in a historically America-centric religion”

(EDITOR: Stop pretending everywhere in the world is downtown SLC, you idiots!)

http://mormontimes.com/studies_doctrine/church_history/?id=9551

“Park said Parley Pratt helped articulate the Mormons' "radically optimistic" view of the body. This view developed as doctrines were revealed by Joseph Smith and then explained by Pratt”

(EDITOR: Oh, yeah! Boffing other men's wives!)

green_messiah's annotated version of the 'banned' cartoon

Prayers from the Vedas

I found this by an act of serendipity, so thought I should share it with you:-

Lack of recent posts. sorry!

There has been a lack of recent posts on Notamormon. I am sorry about this, but I have been very heavily involved in covering a major political scandal that reaches right to the very top of the government of Britain.

Just Google Derek Draper and Damian McBride (and the terms Drapergate and Smeargate) to see what has being happening! Or take a look at the following Wikipedia entry:-

Derek Draper Wkipedia entry

And now for some Mormon related stuff:

http://www.advocate.com/news_detail_ektid82061.asp

“Antigay Group Hiding Mormon Cash?”

http://tvnz.co.nz/national-news/former-white-supremacist-turns-over-new-leaf-2702985

Former white supremacist turns over new leaf (He got married in the Mormon temple and is nw no longer racist, but pro-white! (I can't decide if I should laugh or puke. Maybe I'll do both...)

http://www.upi.com/Odd_News/2009/04/28/Calendars-feature-Mormon-men-moms/UPI-30041240956587/

“Calendars feature Mormon men, moms”

(Mormon Moms? Chad describes them as “Mormon Muffins.” (A whole new meaning to the acronym MILF, perhaps? Mind you in the British Isles Muffin might have a different meaning to whatever Chad has in mind over in the USA. “A good Muffin” is, oh, well, I am sure you need no further explanation!)

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/ann-wright/bybee-and-peterson-two-mo_b_192951.html

The Mormon who authorised torture. And the Mormon who refused to torture.

http://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/2009-04-30/news/richard-franco-discovered-that-the-government-can-interfere-with-a-man-s-freedom-of-religion-in-divorce-court/

Judge Bars Divorced Man from Taking His Kids to Mormon Services

(Good. Though the idiot who write this story doesn't think so. Is she a Mormon, too?)

Mormonism takes

Mormonism takes a great deal, but gives very little in return. Because every time I visited my mother I got loads of guilt heaped on my head ("Get your fresh guilt here! Fresh guilt! Get your fresh guilt here!") that made me resent going to see her. What stopped me going to see her were the silly lies she told people about my girlfriend who is now my wife.

Apparently my wife made me give up Mormonism. This only works in my mother's head. The maths are simple. I left Mormonism in 1981, I met my wife-to-be in 1989. Doesn't add up, does it?

However, I recently started going over to see my mother again. At my wife's insistence, I have to add. And things are pretty cool at the moment...

No guilt trips round the bay, no attacks on my wife.

New posting, no Veil

Well, here I am with a new posting, first one in a while.

There's no Carnival of the Veil at present, as nobody has made any posts on their blogs, either. Well, at least, nobody has sent any posts to me for inclusion in the latest COV, which may or may not be the same thing.

At the moment I am being entertained (for want of a better word) by one of the illegal lodgers at the house that is rented out next door. Why not move? Well, that's not possible at the moment, as we own our house and current market conditions are against putting our house up for sale.

The man who rents the house and his wife are lovely people, but she has just lost her job, so they have decided to take in lodgers (without the permission of the owner of their house) in order to be able to make the rent which is £650 per month. So we can understand why they have done it. Though it is a pity they have allowed one person who rents a room to bring their megga-powerful sound system.

We (that is, my wife and I) believe this will all end in tears, as the young woman concerned seems to move from house to house in the small town we live in. And she has a reputation for laving her last home with stuff that does not belong to her. Though we can't say anything, as these are rumours only.

I have been very busy lately. One of the reasons why there have been no posts on this blog in a while. The company I work for in my day job has decided to slash the use of freelance contributors, meaning that much of the work the freelance writers did has now fallen on my shoulders. And we had no pay rise last year and no Christmas bonus, either. And two of the firm's support staff (one admin, one in accounts) have been let go due to the way the magazine publishing industry has been hit so very hard in the UK.

I have also being working hard in the evenings trying to make money from my websites and freelance writing. Sometimes I do not finish until 1 or even 2am, and have to get up for work at 7.15am, for another day of writing. You have to do what you have to do in order to survive. My wife works, even though her health is not too good. She has arthritis.

Well, at least I am not in the position of all the Mormons I know. They have to pay 10% of their income to the corporate church. That's £1 in every £10 that they earn.

COV For November

Hi. Welcome to COV for November.

Hope all American readers had a good Thanksgiving.

We kick off with a post from South Bay Soliloquies:

Which states: I Love Colbert" And shows why, with a video of The Colbert Report!

http://south-bay-soliloquies.blogspot.com/2008/11/i-love-colbert.html

Next is a post from my blog which covers a case in Australia of alleged lack of action by the Mormon Church regarding a paedophile member

http://notamormon.blogspot.com/2008/11/sex-between-adult-males-and-14-year-old.html

That's it for this time, these are the only entries.

Next edition of COV will be mid January. Please send your entries in by the second week January.

Recovery From Mormonism is now 13 years old

To mark this, an interview with the founder, filmed five years ago: