Mormons and criticism

Many Mormons do not like to hear or read criticism of their church. They believe they have a God-given right to correct what they see as misinformation about the Mormon church.

If we are to believe Mormons there was never any blood oaths in the Mormon Temple ceremony, Joseph Smith only had one wife (and if he did have more than one wife, including women already married to other men and young, nubile girls under the age of 16, it did not matter as they were only ever 'spiritual' wives) and Mountain Meadows was only an attack by Indians on a wagon train of people passing through the territory. And in any case, it did not matter, as did you know that some of those people on that wagon train were actually part of the mob that martyred Joseph Smith?

And did you know that neither Joseph Smith or Brigham Young ever ordered a group of men called the Danites (which didn't exist, anyway) to murder people? And even if Joseph Smith and Brigham Young HAD ordered the non-existent group to murder people, it would not have mattered as they would almost certainly have deserved it, and blood atonement was never preached or practised.

When Mormons tell or pass on these lies, do they know they are lying? OR do they really believe what they are saying? I remember one former Mormon mentioning the blood oaths in the temple ceremony to someone who had gone through the temple at roughly the same time as them. They were shocked when the practising Mormon denied there had ever been blood oaths as part of the temple ceremony, and challenged the former Mormon asking them why they would make up such a story? It was, they reported, as if part of the memory of the practising Mormon had been surgically removed. Unless, of course, the Mormon was just a liar? Which tends to indicate that some Mormons do "Lie for the Lord."

How our Mormon families see us

OK, let’s see… Your brothers and sisters never see you, they do not like their children being alone with you and your parents think that you are one of Satan’s minions.

What are you? A murderer? Child molester? A rapist? A convicted fraudster? No. Just a former Mormon.

When my brother found out that I was chatting with to my nephew at a family (nevermo) party whilst I was drinking a can of lager, he could not wait to run over to us at the party (knocking an elderly nevermo relation out of the way in his indecent haste. Way to go, bruv!)

Apparently he thought I was an evil influence on my nephew and would try to lead him down the pathway to Hell.

The truth was that within minutes of talking with my nephew, I had found out more about my nephew than his (sadly) rather stupid father (my brother) had in his life.

I had found out that he had been binge drinking with a mate several times and I was actually advising him to take it easy with alcohol. To avoid spirits and not to drink stuff just for the sake of drinking it. Not that my brother would believe that. But that’s HIS problem!

But of course, as I am a filthy, degenerate apostate ™ © then I can have no good intentions and no noble objectives. Of course not. Because, of course, only Mormons know The Truth ™! The Truth? Sadly most Mormons would not know the truth if it bit them on the arse...

But we sometimes feel guilty when we do something non-Mormon like drink coffee or have a glass of beer with our meal.

But this is NOT our fault, nor is it our problem.

They are, after all, the ones who are following the example of a rapist and child molester and convicted fraudster, not us...

(Edited update of a previous post)

Is your website a Slurl?

Would you book a holiday through oldmanshaven.com? Or visit ipwine.com for a bottle of wine? And would you download music from mp3shits.com?

Much more than a list of funny names, Slurls is a new book that takes the reader on a global journey from small-town America to the tea rooms of Britain, with surreal stopovers, to look at the special charms of technology and big business.

Andy Geldman discovered the joy of awful URLs in 2006. Realising he had found his true calling, he coined the word "slurl" - a badly named URL, innocently chosen by genuine businesses. Andy set up a website and devoted all his spare time to hunting down more gems. The website went on to draw thousands of visitors from around the world, bringing in over 75,000 in 2009.

Andy says: "With over a hundred million websites already registered it's extremely unlikely that a business will get their first choice of address. In fact, they'll be lucky to get their second, third or even hundredth choice. There have always been unintentionally funny names, but the internet takes it to a whole new level. It's all because you can't have a space in your URL. A business called IT Scrap is fine in the real world but not so great online with itscrap.com!"

This fascinating and humorous collection includes over 100 websites plus relevant facts, observations and Internet trivia. Chapters cover America, Britain, and the rest of the English-speaking world, business and technology, websites that sound pornographic but aren’t, hoaxes, and other website names that aren’t quite true slurls.

Andy Geldman is a self-employed computer programmer and took a break from his day job to write his first book. When not collecting slurls, Andy uses his personal blog Who Ate All The Cookies? to seek out and celebrate all that is ridiculous in the world of technology. He lives in London.

Do you play mind games with your partner?

Do you ever play mind games with your partner?

Of course you don't! Well, you don't, do you?

Perhaps you do...

Do you always have to be in the right?

Do you ever start an argument with your partner, without there really being a valid reason?

Do you expect a higher standard of behaviour from your partner than you do of yourself?

Do you ever lie to your partner about silly, trivial things you needn't have lied about?

Can You Turn a Gay Straight?

Dr. Jallen Rix has first hand experience of the type of prayer sessions Tory star Philippa Stroud is reported to have ran to 'cure' gay people at her King's Arms Project in Bedford.

Jallen Rix has an extraordinary story to tell. It’s a story of religious abuse that almost destroyed his deep spiritual convictions and his life. In his book Ex-Gay NO WAY: Survival and Recovery from Religious Abuse Jallen reveals how he endured extreme religious abuse while a part of an ex-gay ministry, which was designed to turn him from a gay man to a straight one. It is also a story of his incredible determination to live in the truth of his sexuality and with his spirituality up front and centre.

Bringing to light an extreme fundamentalist Christian view, this insider’s perspective offers hope to people grappling with the after-effects of a cult-like movement often known as "Reparative Therapy." The movement assumes that going from gay to straight is easily changeable and change-worthy, despite decades of psycho/sexual research to the contrary.

“The Ex-Gay Movement is stripped naked, and through an abundance of snapshots we get to see its vulnerability and cover-ups. These perspectives are mounted together with Jallen’s moving story telling and in-depth research. The naming of religious abuse, the dispelling of sex-phobic myths, the raw motion of personal experience make this a great resource for pastors and counsellors; yet possibly the greatest accomplishment of this book is that it brings the reader to a conclusion — a motive and means for recovery without feeling forced to accept or abandon.”

— Paul Whiting, International advocate, author and pastor.

Ex-Gay NO WAY part dramatic memoir, part compassionate manual, deals with homosexuality and Christianity and, in particular, ‘Reparative Therapy’. In it Rix describes being utterly stripped of every shred of his spirituality through this experience and reveals how he ultimately reclaimed a new unconditional relationship to God.

“Dr Rix has exposed reparative therapy in a way never seen before. He clearly compares the features of the ex-gay movement with the damaging and cultic aspects of hyper-religiosity. The similarities are so numerous that, at times, there simply is no difference between the two.”

— Thomas Erwin Gertz Ed.D., DACS, Professor of Sexology, Dean of Students, Institute of Advanced Study of Human Sexuality, San Francisco, California.

Rix, who was raised a Southern Baptist, understands completely the negative effects of a closeted life and the difficulties associated with reconciling his deep Christian beliefs with his homosexuality. He went to great lengths attempting to change from gay to straight consequently enduring the rigors of ‘Reparative Therapy’ as prescribed by ex-gay ministries.

"The very existence of Change of Orientation programmes perpetuates the idea that homosexuality is bad, and this is one of the reasons I've been against these programmes being available. They send the message to people that 'This is change-worthy, and we strongly urge this to be changed and if you were a good person you would want it changed."
— Dr. Gerald Davison, Professor of Psychology, University of Southern California

Many gay men and women have contemplated or committed suicide as a result of ‘reparative therapy.’ In Ex-Gay NO WAY, Rix makes a passionate case for ending the phenomenon known as ‘religious abuse’ and describes his attempts to reclaim his wholeness through self-affirming therapy, education, healthy sexuality and guided internal exploration.

“We did employ a lot of techniques that, looking back on it now I realise, were brainwashing techniques. Don’t associate with anybody who disagrees with you. Don’t read any non-Christian books. Don’t go anyplace where non-Christians are hanging out. Certainly don’t ever read anything that’s pro-gay. If there’s a show that presents gays in a favourable light turn it off.”

— Michael Bussee, A Founder of Exodus International and Ex-gay Survivor.

In Ex-Gay NO WAY Jallen Rix makes a heartfelt plea for the abolition of ‘religious abuse’ and the right for every gay person to live the Christian life they choose.

Book Info:

Ex-Gay No Way: Survival and Recovery from Religious Abuse

by Jallen Rix £10.99, Findhorn Press. ISBN 978-1-84409-187-4.

FACT FILE:

Jallen Rix, EdD, is a speaker, author, and educator on sexology. He writes a column called "Sex Ed in Bed," is a regular columnist for gay.com, and has appeared on TV talk shows such as ABC's 20/20. He lives in San Francisco.

MLMs and Mormons

Someone asked the following question on the RFM Board (www.exmormon.org) recently:

“Is it me, or are Mormons attracted to MLMs (multi-level marketing) like moth to flame?”

My reply was: Yes, Why? Because they need to generate extra income. Tithe, told to have large families. They need extra income. But with all their callings, temple visits, etc., they have no time.

So when they are offered an MLM opportunity ("create your own tri-spatial uplining downline in only ten minutes!!") they fall upon it like a thirsty man in the desert when he sees water. Only it's almost always a mirage.

I have written on this subject at greater length. Here is that post:-

Why DO so many Mormons enter MLM schemes?

Why do so many Mormons get into MLM schemes or other direct selling schemes and try to sell Amway, Noni Juice, Nu Skin, Mary Kay, Nature’s Sunshine Products, Herbalife, Nutra-Smart, XanGo, Living Scriptures, 4Life Research, NSA, Pharmanex, Quixtar, Shaklee, Kirby, Unicity International, USANA Health Sciences, Inc., and Old Mother Jones’ Baked Goods by Mail? (OK, although it sounds like a good idea, I just made that last one up!)

Now, some ex-Mormons say that this is because Mormons are stupid. This must mean that either they, the ex-Mormon, is also stupid, or somehow when they became an ex-Mormon miraculously became non-stupid and magically intelligent.

However, as most ex-Mormons do not believe in miracles or magic (they drag out that lovely little hobby horse, the Invisible Pink Unicorn) then we must look for another explanation as to why so many Mormons get involved with MLM schemes and scams. The answer is so simple that I am surprised the “Mormons are stupid/gullible” theory has held sway for so long.

The real answer is, I believe, because the Mormon church, in relative terms, keeps its membership ‘dirt poor.’

Every faithful (and some less-than-faithful) Mormon pays 10% of their income to the Mormon Church in a tithe. Now, in strictly Biblical terms, the Mormon tithe is not “legal”. This is because it tithes income before tax; Federal, State, Income Tax, Sales Tax, VAT and Council Tax in the UK, so it tithes gross income and not net/increase as a genuine tithe would.

Therefore the situations for Mormons is worse than it would at first appear to be. Depending on local taxation regimens, the real cost of a Mormon tithe could be anything up to 25 to 50%. And this does not take into account mission fund, fast offering, etc., which takes an even larger chunk of money out of the typical Mormon family budget.

So in comparison to their non-Mormon neighbours (even those of other Christian denominations who might pay a tithe based on increase, rather than gross income) many Mormons are “dirt poor.”

So in order to live any kind of meaningful life and to not have to rely on food stamps, social security handouts or Mormon church welfare, an extra source of income is required.

What about a second job? An attractive idea, true. But as for the practicalities of a Mormon getting a second job? As Austin Powers would say: “Oh, behave!” Most faithful Mormons spend almost all of their free time in meetings, or even in meetings about meetings. Not to mention, home/visiting teaching, missionary splits, etc., etc. They would not have time for an extra job.

So what to do to ensure their children have some luxuries in their life, such as food to eat, a roof over their heads, and so forth? Try MLM. You can run it in your spare time. (What spare time?!) and even if you do not have spare time, you can try to have a whispered conversation in the hall in between three hour block meetings with Brother Zee or Sister Wye, about how you are SURE that Wonder Cure Mineral Drink will just change their lives forever! (And all for only two cans a week, at $14.00 per can.

Do they make any money? The answer varies from not much to zero. So not only do they not get out from the Mormon Church poverty trap they end up even more miserable and depressed. And then what happens? More Prozac, anyone?

So, next time someone says to you that Mormons are stupid for getting into MLMs, ask them where they parked either their Bible or their Invisible Pink Unicorn? Ask them when (or if!) THEY stopped being stupid. Or point out that Mormons are not necessarily stupid, but are kept in the Mormon poverty trap. After all, a poor person is often more pliable than a wealthy one.

I also covered it here

Scams, schemes and dreams

Utah, or so we are told, is the World Capital City of scams, schemes and dreams.

As I have asked before, WHY do so many Mormons get into MLM schemes or other direct selling schemes and try to sell Amway, Noni Juice, Nu Skin, Mary Kay, Nature’s Sunshine Products, Herbalife, Nutra-Smart, XanGo, Living Scriptures, 4Life Research, NSA, Pharmanex, Quixtar, Shaklee, Kirby, Unicity International, USANA Health Sciences, Inc., and the like?

Well, I blame the grandpappy of all Mormon propaganda films, Meet the Mormons. You have to be of a certain age to have seen this film, originally made for the World's Fair in 1960 something, because some utter arse allowed the Mormons to have a special Mormon Pavilion there.

The film was shown to all new 'prospects' (a term borrowed directly from the insurance sales industry, which shows just exactly HOW the Mormon church feels about people) and I would guess that it was a major factor in tricking my parents into joining.

"Do you want to be in Heaven with your family?" What kind of pondscum would say no to that question? You'd have to be an idiot NOT to agree with that, right? Right. And that's how they scammed people.

I was hoping to find it on Google or Youtube, but it is not there. Yet. Here is a link to a copy of the book that went with the film, on sale http://www.elephantbooks.com/item_list.asp?category=Religion+and+Inspiration%3AMormonism&major_id=72

The film helped prime people to be gullible. It helped to ensure that the Mormons grew up as ideal victims of scams, schemes and dreams. Ideal for plucking by fellow Mormons as desperate as themselves, or by fellow Mormons who were cynical and who were looking for other Mormons who they could fleece and rip-off.

Could YOU take the last $10 or £10 from a needy family with pie in the sky dreams of a multi-level marketing structure that was "just so right for them and their young, hungry family?"

Children who were not thriving because you can't thrive on TVP and other such crud? (Yes, we had to eat TVP. It was vile and tasted awful. Still, it was OK, because my mom and dad paid tithing and fast offering.)

As a side point, we once had a Bishop who questioned the modest amount of our fast offering. My mother showed the SOB exactly how much money we had to spend on food, after we took 10% out of my father's meager wage. He was shocked by what we had to live on. Not shocked enough to offer us help you understand! But then that wasn't the Mormon way in Britain.

Why are some ex-Mormons so... Mormon?

Some ex-Mormons are so Mormon!

What do I mean by that?

Not so long ago on the Ex-Mormon bulletin board, there was Timothy's regular: "What are you drinking tonight?" threads.

Someone complained about it saying: "I think that you will find that 'in the real world' people never talk about what they will be drinking on a Friday evening!"

I had to wade in to this debate. It was clear that the person who made that comment hadn't got one clue about the real world! In my workplace in the UK what alcoholic beverages are going to be consumed that evening and the rest of the weekend are a major topic of conversation on Fridays. And on Monday there is often a conversation about the actuality of what as drunk!

And someone disliked my blog and the book that I based on it because: "I used bad language."

In truth my language was mild compared to me in the flesh, so I still haven't a clue what he meant.

The problem that the ex-Mormons who made the above statement have, but doesn't realise is that they still view the world through Mormon-tinted glasses.

They do not believe in the teachings of Joseph Smith but for some reason they still act like Mormons, pompous arrogant and very condescending.

Why? Because they will have to learn how to behave like normal people in the real world.

Why do they do it?

Why do Mormons think that ex-Mormons want to debate spurious points with them? I had my fill of debating spurious points with rabid Mormons when I was a Mormon!

For example, Mormons who are eager for the re-introduction of polygamy. Almost salivating at the prospect of having multiple wives. And this was in Britain, remember. Not in Utah with the various Mormon fundamentalist camps and compounds where polygamy is a sort of open secret. Or open sore, as some might see it. I saw the look on the faces of their poor wives. Not nice.

The problem that many Mormons have with ex-Mormons is that they do not believe anything that we say. They either pretend that we were never really Mormons, or, if we can provide them with proof that we were once Mormons like them (why should we have to?) they deny that we ever really had a testimony that Mormonism was the one true faith. Or that we were too weak to remain as Mormons, or wanted to sin or were offended by someone and left in a huff. Or were tricked by Satan.

If we provide them with hard evidence of why we conclude that Mormonism is not true, they call us liars and say that only faith promoting Mormon sources are 'true' and 'reliable'.

Thus they deny that -for example- the fact that the so-called Reformed Egyptian was, in reality, Ogham, a type of Latin shorthand is important, because feelings trump facts. Always.

If you say that blue is blue, they will deny it and say that you have no proof to back up your outrageous claim. Why would it be an outrageous claim? Because YOU made it! And as you are an ex-Mormon, then you MUST be wrong! QED!

It is a simple way of thinking that requires no thought.

As I have covered all variations of how Mormons think that ex-Mormons are always in the wrong, I do not feel inclined to accept any "You are wrong!" comments on this post from any Mormons. Hey. It's my blog. I can set the rules and if I do not want to enter into a pointless debate with people who automatically presume that I am wrong, then that's the way it is.

Mormon temple marriage policy under scrutiny

Hundreds of people are coming together from various countries and religious persuasions, to voice their objections to the leadership of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints at its headquarters in Salt Lake City, Utah regarding its divisive temple wedding policy in North America -and increasingly in other countries. Online discussion and debate on Mormon blogs have been ignited by a petition at the website www.templeweddingpetition.org where people may print off and sign an actual hard copy petition requesting Church leaders to seriously consider the damage to the church and individuals; hoping for a sign of compassion towards all those who are, have been and may still be affected.

The temple wedding policy creating such a storm, penalises LDS couples who choose a civil marriage outside of LDS temples with a mandatory one-year waiting period before they can attend the temple for the uniquely LDS temple sealing. Combining a marriage ceremony ‘until death do us part’ with the temple ‘sealing for eternity’ means that it must take place within the confines of an LDS temple to which anyone other than an adult, worthy, temple endowed Mormon is excluded.

Petition spokesperson Jean Bodie says petition participants are stating that the policy is not doctrinal because LDS couples are not penalized in other parts of the world where civil marriage is required by law. According to Bodie, personal accounts posted to the website tell how the policy results in pain and disharmony in family relationships, often resulting in anger toward the LDS Church. “For a worldwide Church that believes families are eternal, its exclusionary policy can and often does create a painful chasm, between family loyalty and obedience to an arbitrary policy, says Bodie.

Organisers anticipate that the leadership of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints wishes to promote love and harmony in the family. Bodie says they simply want the Church to waive the punitive, one-year waiting period; giving back to LDS couples the right to choose a civil marriage ceremony first, if they so desire, without any repercussions or judgment on their character.

For further details please visit www.templeweddingpetition.org

An interesting question: Were the first Mormons idiots?

Rubicon posed this very interesting question over at RFM.

Here are my thoughts on why so many people came from England, Wales, Scotland and Scandinavia:-

Look at it from their point of view. Many of them were craftsmen. But they were not always paid what they were due. In Britain they lived in small, damp and cold terraced houses, often very close to the factory where they worked. If the womenfolk put the washing out on a washing line strung up in the back yard or over the alley at the back of the houses, the pollution would make it dirtier than before it was washed.

They were fed stories of the rolling pastures of Utah, how you could have as much land as you wanted, how the weather was nice and the air was pure. And would make your child with the chest condition breathe good, wholesome, clean air for the first time in its miserable life.

It is surprising that more did not accompany them.

And when they found out the awful, terrible truth?

Why, there was Sister Snitch and Bother Tittle-Tattle ready to carry tales back and then there was Brother Danite ready to make sure they toed the line!

Well, you wouldn't want to just vanish like that Scandinavian troublemaker who left a wife and three children to starve under the malevolent eye of Brother Brigham, prophet, seer and revelator, would you?

And as luck would have it, Brother Brigham had a close confidant of his marry the beautiful blond woman for himself. Joining his 12 other bitter, resentful older wives.

What's that? She's... You don't think she is officially a widow? Well, hush! If the Lord's anointed has ordained the wedding, then please say it must be so! Don't question it, for pities sake! Least you want to take the walk into the night with the Danite Brethren!

They were not idiots. The were given the hard sell and then were too terrified to be able to do anything about it.

Happy New Year!

Have fun!

A rude Carol (Sensitive people, don't watch!)

Mormonism: How stupid do they think people are?

The answer is they hope people are very stupid indeed.

Everyone who uses multilevel marketing techniques to sell either a product or a way of life must really hate the Internet.

For out there on the internet you will find sites both for and against (for example): Amway, Noni Juice, Nu Skin, Mary Kay, Nature’s Sunshine Products, Herbalife, Nutra-Smart, XanGo, Living Scriptures, 4Life Research, NSA, Pharmanex, Quixtar, Shaklee, Covey, Kirby, Unicity International, USANA Health Sciences, Inc., Mormonism, etc., etc.

Some of the sites are purely bonkers with criticism that is unfair or based on a misunderstanding with someone. Others. however, have very valid and genuine criticism of the firm or organisation concerned.

The Mormon Church, however, is one of the few that actually warn people not toseek out critical information on it! To many people, this is the red rag to the bull. "If you don't want me to find out some information, then there's a reason why." And people use the Internet and discover websites like this one, or Recovery From Mormonism and the like.

Prospects (yes, Mormonism uses American Insurance sales terms for people thinking about joining their church) can see how many women (married and single) Joseph Smith had as 'wives' what the Danites were, which modern LDS leaders thought it better that a young lady allow herself to be murdered rather than raped and other such gems of LDS wisdom.

Many decline to join such a church. Or, if they do, keep their wits about them and bale out as soon as the nutty ways of Mormonism become all too apparent.

And that is why the Mormon Church doesn't want you on the Internet, researching all about the Mormon Church. No salesman wants to lose a prospect, do they?

How to Lie for the Lord. (VIDEO)

Mormon Calendar gets UK publicity

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/picturegalleries/howaboutthat/6459430/2010-calendars-nude-charity-and-bizarre-calendars-available-for-next-year.html

Publicity for Chad's calendar is now going International.

Exmo Challenge. Make your own exmo TV advert!

MJ over at RFM inspired me.

The challenge is this:-

Make an exmo TV advert. It can be up to 2 minutes in length and should put a humorous take on the exmo experience and how much better life is as an exmo.

Publish it on your Youtube Channel and send me the link (matt underscore exmo at yahoo.co.uk) and I'll publish them here on Notamormon.

Let's say until the end of November.

There are no prizes, but it should be fun.

Atheist Summer Camp for UK kids?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2009/jul/29/atheist-summer-camp-somerset

“The idea behind the camp is to give a "godless" alternative to traditional religious summer camps”

Actually, this is a strange idea. As ANY summer camps in Britain (religious or otherwise) are very, very rare indeed.

Still, it is an interesting idea.

Weird Mormon stories

http://taiwanjournal.nat.gov.tw/ct.asp?xItem=54220&ctNode=413

“Mormon proprietor tastes alcohol without swallowing”

(EDITOR: Just stop serving booze!)

http://www.sltrib.com/themix/ci_12754408

“LDS Leaders strive to help foreign members feel comfortable in a historically America-centric religion”

(EDITOR: Stop pretending everywhere in the world is downtown SLC, you idiots!)

http://mormontimes.com/studies_doctrine/church_history/?id=9551

“Park said Parley Pratt helped articulate the Mormons' "radically optimistic" view of the body. This view developed as doctrines were revealed by Joseph Smith and then explained by Pratt”

(EDITOR: Oh, yeah! Boffing other men's wives!)

green_messiah's annotated version of the 'banned' cartoon

Prayers from the Vedas

I found this by an act of serendipity, so thought I should share it with you:-